Illegals dont steal jobs?

This question specifically focuses on the impact that illegal immigrants have on the job market. I recently saw an article that proved the illegal immigrants have only positive/neutral impact on the job market. In the early 1990's the unemployment rate was 5.8% and there were only a couple million illegal immigrants in the country. Now the unemployment rate is 4.4% and there is 12-20 million immigrants. I don't remember which article it was but I am sure you can find the stats at census.gov or anywhere. Even African Americans went from 10.6% to 8.3% unemployment. Now, based on this alone, the trend seems to be that immigrants really do the jobs that americans don't want. And yes, there might be a few thousand people that lose their jobs, but the world is not perfect.

My question is based on this alone, don't you think it is logical to have illegal immigrants? we will always need people to do the unpleasant jobs, and most legal immigrants wont do it(nor americans).

I know that some immigrants do abuse the system, but just look at germany now, it has 10-20% unemployment rate because they dont have cheap labor.

Illegal Immigrants are Paying a Lot More Taxes Than You Think
Eight million illegals pay Social Security, Medicare, and income taxes
By Shikha Dalmia


Denying public services to people who pay their taxes is an affront to America's bedrock belief in fairness. But many "pull-up-the-drawbridge" politicians want to do just that when it comes to illegal immigrants.

The fact that illegal immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes. Yet, nativists like Congressman Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., have popularized the notion that illegal aliens are a colossal drain on the nation's hospitals, schools and welfare programs 鈥?consuming services that they don't pay for.

In reality, the 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified illegal immigrants from nearly all means-tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization. The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education.

Nevertheless, Tancredo and his ilk pushed a bill through the House criminalizing all aid to illegal aliens 鈥?even private acts of charity by priests, nurses and social workers. Potentially, any soup kitchen that offers so much as a free lunch to an illegal could face up to five years in prison and seizure of assets.

The Senate bill that recently collapsed would have tempered these draconian measures against private aid. But no one 鈥?Democrat or Republican 鈥?seems to oppose the idea of withholding public services. Earlier this year, Congress passed a law that requires everyone who gets Medicaid 鈥?the government-funded health care program for the poor 鈥?to offer proof of U.S. citizenship so we can avoid "theft of these benefits by illegal aliens," as Rep. Charlie Norwood, R-Ga., puts it.

But, immigrants aren't flocking to the United States to mooch off the government. According to a study by the Urban Institute, the 1996 welfare reform effort dramatically reduced the use of welfare by undocumented immigrant households, exactly as intended. And another vital thing happened in 1996: the Internal Revenue Service began issuing identification numbers to enable illegal immigrants who don't have Social Security numbers to file taxes.

One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS' scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers. No doubt they hope that this will one day help them acquire legal status 鈥?a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules and come out of the shadows.

What's more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks. Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they'll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers 鈥?that the Social Security administration stashes in the 鈥渆arnings suspense file鈥?鈥?added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus. The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year.

Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children. The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families 鈥?most of whom are illegal 鈥?are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume.

Yes, many illegal migrants impose a strain on border communities on whose doorstep they first arrive, broke and unemployed. To solve this problem equitably, these communities ought to receive the surplus taxes that federal government collects from immigrants. But the real reason border communities are strained is the lack of a guest worker program. Such a program would match willing workers with willing employers in advance so that they wouldn't be stuck for long periods where they disembark while searching for jobs.

The cost of undocumented aliens is an issue that immigrant bashers have created to whip up indignation against people they don't want here in the first place. Politicians ought to set the record straight: Illegals are not milking the government. If anything, it is the other way around.

Why do you not adopt them and pay for all their care.

Its you asking the question!!!....need I say more?


Pro BS'er

Interesting point. You'd have helped yourself by providing a link

The bottom line is that the American people have the right to decide who can come, when, and for how long, not the illegals

Yeah you "saw" an anticle. So did I. However the article I saw disputes your claim and completely says your claim is false. Anyone can come on here and spew, "I saw this". Doesn't mean it is fact. Back up your claim. Where are your stats? Articles and their authors? Where are they?

Your comparison with Germany is completely flawed. Germany is not a mirror imagine of the American democracy system. Keep looking. However you are right about one thing, and one thing only. America is not perfect(not for the illegal aliens anyway). It never will be(for the illegal aliens anyway).

No, because hiring people with wages that are not liveable causes them to be a burden on the taxpayer via social programs. We should subsidize farming and then pay the American farm workers liveable wages. OR we can have inmates do that kind of labor. There are so many solutions other than destroying America for cheap labor.

If there were no one here to do it for $5 an hour they would have to raise the wage for an American to do it! Don't be fooled, they only do jobs that Americans can't afford to do, we got to pay taxes, by insurance, pay for housing and pay for our medical bills! Why should tax payers subsidize big business for cheap labor...

You know what, all your crap doesn't mean a thing. If they are illegal, they are illegal. I do know that prior to illegals being hired to pick crops here in southern Ohio, the high school kids had summer jobs in the fields and it was great for them and they could save money for things they wanted. Now, all this work has been STOLEN by illegals because the feds allow the farmers to house 15 or 20 people in one run down 10 x 60 mobile home. So, the farmers and the illegals both have stolen jobs from our high school kids that they sure needed. Thats why I say, if they are illegal and can be caught, send them, their Mom and Dad, the kids and all the other relatives they bring with them, back to where they came from and come here legal. Oh, I forgot, who the h** do you think is paying for the med's and the food stamps. I am and so are you.

You know.. I have to think being someone who picks up the garbage has to be an unpleasant job but Americans do it.. I have to think being a janitor is probably an unpleasant job but Americans do it, I have to think- I would certainly have to think working in a landfill is a very unpleasant job but Americans do it, I would think- now I may be wrong but working in a waste water treatment plant probably isn't someone's dream job but Americans do it.. Americans do jobs that other Americans wouldn't want to do... but Americans DO IT!

hun seriously if your going to post statistics you must have a source.

You're kidding right!!?? Just as soon as you make these people legal, do you really think they will continue to work for the wages they work for now? Do you not think that they are then entitled to minimum wage and unemployment compensation? You will have to import a whole new breed to fill these jobs. Americans won't take these jobs because they won't settle for payment less than the REQUIRED minimum standards. I recommend you do some economic research on this.

There are several logical flaws in your argument but I will take them at face value since you bothered to at least show a little restraint contrary to your standard liberal. First of all you have to remember the the early 90's was the end of the first Bush administration and beginning of the Clinton one. They were both notorious with taxes which weaken an economy.

But lets say it is not that, lets say taxes boost the economy. One would then have to consider that maybe some of Bush's policies like no child left behind is working. You know more African Americans making it through school and stricter school policies. This equals out to more young African Americans seeking jobs.

But that can't be it, Bush is an idiot. So one would have to consider that maybe the American economy is doing better naturally from its own commercial competitiveness.

That can't be true America is the worst planet in the history of the world.

Also I would like to note that construction jobs are actually jobs that Americans DO want. They get fired all the time because of illegals. I usually don't see any illegals on dirty jobs. I don't see them working the coal mines either. Wait what am I saying coal miner is a fantastic job.

The exact same statistics could be present if these "undocumented" workers were to enter the country legally - even if for a short time on a work visa.
No, it does not seem logical - especially post 9/11 - to have millions of people in this country with absolutely no documentation. The United States doesn't know who these people are, how many there are or where they are - we do, however, know that the benefits do not outweigh the risks or the costs.
Any job - yes, ANY job, can be filled by legal citizens if the pay and benefits are an incentive. And, in my opinion, the extra cost of goods will be readily offset by the decrease health care costs, incarceration costs, crime, identity theft, "under the table" non-taxed wages and the enormous amounts of revenue being sent back to Mexico.

No it is not logical to have illegal immigrants. We would just be telling our kids that it's o.k. to break the law as long as your doing something that no one else will.
Not to mention all the other problem illegal immigrants bring. What did we just lose? Something like 120 urgent care facilities around the country do to illegal immigrants not paying for medical care.

Not to mention that they aren't doing a job that nobody will do, they are just willing to do the job for less. If they were not here companies, farmers, whomever would be forced to pay better wages, and I guarantee that people would take those jobs.

Right, but most of the jobs that they do, are not counted in the unemployment stats. Statistic are NON-FARM employment.
ESTABLISHMENT DATA | Employment
|_______________________________________...
| | | | | |
Nonfarm employment.......| 136,951| 137,447| 137,594|p137,674|p137,831| p157
Goods-producing (1)....| 22,539| 22,505| 22,497| p22,458| p22,439| p-19
Construction ........| 7,691| 7,684| 7,692| p7,671| p7,671| p0
Manufacturing .......| 14,147| 14,111| 14,090| p14,070| p14,051| p-19
Service-providing (1)..| 114,412| 114,942| 115,097|p115,216|p115,392| p176
Retail trade (2).....| 15,316| 15,375| 15,404| p15,379| p15,374| p-5
Professional and | | | | | |
business services .| 17,727| 17,826| 17,834| p17,855| p17,887| p32
Education and health | | | | | |
services ..........| 18,019| 18,143| 18,188| p18,246| p18,300| p54
Leisure and | | | | | |
hospitality .......| 13,318| 13,423| 13,449| p13,461| p13,507| p46
Government ..........| 22,107| 22,170| 22,197| p22,218| p22,240| p22

And if we use your logic, then what are the 12-20 million doing? The employment rates have gone up. And illegals are not counted. So where are they, where are they getting their money from? Its under the table earnings, which is proof that they do not pay federal taxes.

well yes they say we "steal" their jobs....
and then they say we beg for food.

they just cant make up their minds.

i see clinics backed with legal or maybe most illegal immigrants and guess what? THEY PAY FOR THEIR OWN DOCTOR!
you can't get health benefits without a legal status. get that through your IGNORANT heads!

You already answered your own question, think about it, it's not stealing, it's the fact that I had never seen a white person (and I am not racist), doing housekeeping, running errands for somebody else, agriculture, washing cars, grilling in a restaurant, in fact when you go to a dinner, take a look of who's in the grilling, waitresses, babysitting, walk a long broadway and all you see is faces from the caribbean, gas stations (only black, and hispanics) doin' this, Have you ever seen any illegal inmigrants walking down on wall street? no, the jobs are basically for other people down there and I do not want to mention any races, so to me you have dirty jobs that the americans doesn't want to do and you have white collars ones that are only made for other race.

i don't really care about the whole illegal immagrents in the country. i think they all have a right to be here, unless they try to kill us. just personaly. Also, i think wouldn't it be easier to jsut go through the seminar thing, and become legal, but i've never had to do that, so i wouldn't know. I don't however understand why the gov. would make the illegal parents keep their child her, just because they were born here. That is mean and cruel and the kid might be messed up for a long time. So that never really made sense to me. (sorry that was so long, just stating my opinions and ideas.)